Is the heineken Cup or any Pro Euro comp better than the Super 14?

I think so and here are my reasons why.

1 The Euro clubs and i mean clubs not RFU try to get the best players for their teams.

They are not hamstrung by stupid rulings like the kiwis and aussie's are with the you can only play for the club if your eligible for the country crap.

That rule in itself allows for mediocrity not superiority.

2 Quality of product

The Southern Hemisphere trio have got in there heads that they need to speed the game up so they allow the numnuts in the IRB to tinker with the rules (ELV).

The South says yes'm boss the North says hang on a minute .

Why quality of product the super 14 soon to be 15 has mediocre coaches doing a mediocre job in a mediocre comp. Point of reference Colin Cooper how can you have 11 All Blacks in your team and still not make the final any repucussions hell no he will be back next year no accountability at all.

The North resisted the ELV's for as long as they could they didn't have a problem with the rules, we down here in the southern hemisphere claim they play boring rugby to much kicking not enough running yet they pack out stadiums and probably get all there wishes when it comes to the tv deals, why quality of product clubs get to bring the best player they want not knee capped by the club country rule and the player in turn gets to test themselves against good quality opponents in a comp that allows growth.

It may not be the best comp yet but its fast approaching it why the quality :ie rugby: that is produced is light years ahead of us in the south.Proof when was the last time you saw more people at a warriors preseason game than a blues game that alone should have had the alarm bells ringing at NZRU hq.

3 Money the root of all evil

Those at the top half of the world have more money than us on the bottom half, so what, if we had the best and hardest comp money would not be a issue. The NRL has the best league comp but has less money than super league yes they still lose players but the best players stay why cause they wanna be the best in the best comp not the best in a average comp.

Southern Hemi rugby use's money as an excuse they need to wake up between the three nations you have 5 RWC and our domestic comp sux the Northern Hemi has 1 RWC but there domestic comp is on the rise fast and I believe if things stay the same it could be a very long time before a southern team wins another RWC especially if the club country rule stays.

Just my thoughts long winded I know ..Is the heineken Cup or any Pro Euro comp better than the Super 14?
Well the support on this topic seems a little NZ bias...



Anyway, you can say a lot about the quality of rugby in the EU cups, but surely that would depend on how you define quality?



There's no doubt in saying there is a lot of talent in the EU leagues, however, all this talent doesn't generally lead to much of a showcase. You tend to find that most the season, games will be contested in tight play by big forwards, and big backs, running into anything and everything, long penalty kicks, drop goals...and the occasional try. Normally from a back row forward who has been passed the ball out of a tackle by a centre and driven it over, or just simply picked the ball up and driven it over. So yes, it is boring. The standard is supposedly good, but it is boring.



Now the thing with the super league is, you can watch the games, they are exciting, tries galore! (From the matches I've seen anyway)



But of course, this leads to one question, if games are being lost at scores of 35-27...What on earth has happened to the defense? There is no way you can credit all them points to genius or outstanding tries. There's got to be some serious problems with the defensive and positional games being played.



I personally don't really mind, I would rather watch that then some of the trash I've had to sit through (mainly involving London Wasps or Leicester).



In the end it does come down to the money when it comes to it, and the northern hemisphere sides get more. There is a higher following of Rugby Union in Ireland, UK and France, and that means TV companies are willing to pay more. In the end it doesn't matter how good the competition is, the audience is limited mainly to rugby supporters in the southern hemisphere. Unless the sport gains more popularity, and the population of Australia and New Zealand increases dramatically, it won't be able to earn the money!



(unrelated ELV rant. A group of rules mainly campaigned for by australians i believe, and proposed by a group of sports consultants who haven't got a clue. The rules are meant to create more space and stop kicking. If you can't draw players in with a maul, how are you going to make space? If you can't kick the ball dead from inside your 22, where are you going to kick it? They are a nightmare.)
No Northern Hemisphere rugby comes anywhere near this trinations showpeace. The proof being in how many times Northern Hemisphere teams have won the world cup. Only England twiceIs the heineken Cup or any Pro Euro comp better than the Super 14?
Did you actually read your own writing???. Haven't got the time to set you right.
I can only wonder if I'll still foster the same loyalty towards my SH team if it consisted of 3 English, 2 Welch, 2 Irish, 2 French, 1 Argentinian, 1 Italian, 1 Romanian and maybe 3 real local players.



Personally I find a competition of locally trained talent pitting their abilities against each other much more entertaining than a circus of highly paid foreigners playing for the highest bidder.Is the heineken Cup or any Pro Euro comp better than the Super 14?
Luke McAlister has said that he came back to be with his family - which is an obvious reason for many New Zealanders to return to NZ from the NH, not always about the rugby or the job.



I think S14 is under threat from NH, too many stars of the game are being drawn to the NH, and I can't see this trend stopping in the future. I think it will reach a critical point inside the next 5 years where a critical mass of the big name SH stars will be playing the bulk of their rugby in the NH.



The drain of talent has already made the S14 super boring.
If it's so great then why do all the clubs rely on top grade overseas players to support their own b grade ones. If you took the overseas connection away it would be boring garbage. The S14 franchises use players from their own countries 99.9999% of the time.
munster would beat any southern hemisohere club without any players other then the ones born and raised in the province of munster, we may have howlett but what has he done? we experiment with foreign players and they get to learn of the magic that is the support we have in the north. we dont try to belittle the south so why do thay always feel the need to complain about us?
Sound unlikely to be persuaded by any arguments, but you might wonder why people like Rocky Elsom and Luke McAlister are coming back if NH rugby is so fantastic.



You have a good point in that the structures of the competitions are so different that comparisons are hard to make. Too bad you did not pursue the logic and just say so.



Mark L.
Bandit put his finger on it. If these clubs are so good why are they bringing in players from the S14. Leinster won on the weekend with Whittaker and Elsom playing. London Irish made their final with Peter Hewitt.



The other side of it is in International rugby. Last years northern spring tours by the Boks, Wallabies and ABs saw them lose one test between them and this was with many players taking the money in the NH teams. The club sides may be improving but the national sides are going backwards.



Alan, England has won the RWC once. All other RWCs have been won by SH nations.
I think the point he is trying to make is which is a better spectacle to watch, not which one is better for developing players.

I would say, having watched both the Heineken cup and the super 14 on sky, that the Heineken cup is more exciting to watch. I believe this is mostly down to the free-kick ELVs which are ruining the game in the southern hemisphere as it allows players to cheat without much of a punishment.